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Tongue Sucker
http://www.freecpapadvice.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=291
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Author:  Paul Trethewey [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Tongue Sucker

At the lower end of the expense spectrum is a device I call a "tongue sucker": The Aveo TSD from New Zealand. I tried this a while ago. I liked the idea, because it is silent, cheap ($100), no moving parts, requires no electricity, is very portable, easy to clean, can be used while traveling, etc. However, it had its own set of problems. I would awaken during the night to find I had unconsciously ejected it from my mouth. I had difficulty swallowing while using it. It made the tip of my tongue feel weird for hours, the morning after. But mostly, it didn't work. I think the fallacy is that just because you pull on the tip of the tongue doesn't necessarily mean the back of the tongue will move forward. The tongue stretches. This is probably why, to advance the back of the tongue, most people are using dental devices that advance the jaw, which has bone and doesn't stretch.

I really wish this little contraption worked for me.

Anybody on the forum have success with this?

Author:  Magenta [ Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

I have used a Tongue Stabilisation Device and found it very good. At the moment I am only doing short stints of less than 3 hours, but the few times I have used it along with my nasal pillows, my machine recorded 0 AHIs in the times I was wearing it.

I find it really good for short afternoon naps and can't wait to use it in future when travelling.

BTW I bought an Aveo copycat device on eBay for $2.80. I will probably buy an authentic TSD when I decide which one to go with, just to be sure the silicone is medical grade.

Author:  JohnnyNosleep [ Fri Nov 02, 2018 3:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

I tried a cheap one from Amazon. It seemed to work, but after day 2 my tongue was really sore. It's hard to find the correct balance between being too tight and causing pain and too loose and falling off/not holding the tongue far enough forward.

Kind of like my CPAP experiences - I either end up with a mask that is too loose and wakes me up from leaks, or it's too tight and becomes painful/leaves marks! argh.

Author:  Magenta [ Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

I have worked out that the best way to avoid a sore tongue is in the way you put it on. Hold the device gently and insert your tongue till it touches the end. Then let go without applying any pressure with your hand. It forms a good seal with a minimum of pressure.

Author:  SleepyHead566 [ Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

Paul Trethewey wrote:
At the lower end of the expense spectrum is a device I call a "tongue sucker": The Aveo TSD from New Zealand. I tried this a while ago. I liked the idea, because it is silent, cheap ($100), no moving parts, requires no electricity, is very portable, easy to clean, can be used while traveling, etc. However, it had its own set of problems. I would awaken during the night to find I had unconsciously ejected it from my mouth. I had difficulty swallowing while using it. It made the tip of my tongue feel weird for hours, the morning after. But mostly, it didn't work. I think the fallacy is that just because you pull on the tip of the tongue doesn't necessarily mean the back of the tongue will move forward. The tongue stretches. This is probably why, to advance the back of the tongue, most people are using dental devices that advance the jaw, which has bone and doesn't stretch.

I really wish this little contraption worked for me.

Anybody on the forum have success with this?

Go see an orthodontist.

Author:  Ave [ Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

I had bought an affordable tongue stabilizing device on Amazon (under $20), silicone, and used it to stop snoring. It worked, but sometimes fell out while sleeping. Once I discovered that I had serious sleep apnea, I wore it through the night successfully. But I also acquired a CPAP machine (Dreamstation) and AirFit30 Mask and am trying to get comfortable with this equipment (having issues with dry/leathery mouth and air going into my stomach).

So far, I prefer the tongue device, but at doctor's recommendation, will continue with CPAP

My AHI index for the sleep test was 35.

Does anyone know if the tongue device can be as effective as a CPAP machine?

Author:  Pugsy [ Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

Ave wrote:
I had bought an affordable tongue stabilizing device on Amazon (under $20), silicone, and used it to stop snoring. It worked, but sometimes fell out while sleeping. Once I discovered that I had serious sleep apnea, I wore it through the night successfully. But I also acquired a CPAP machine (Dreamstation) and AirFit30 Mask and am trying to get comfortable with this equipment (having issues with dry/leathery mouth and air going into my stomach).

So far, I prefer the tongue device, but at doctor's recommendation, will continue with CPAP

My AHI index for the sleep test was 35.

Does anyone know if the tongue device can be as effective as a CPAP machine?



Get a sleep study done while using the tongue device....it's the only way to know for sure how effective it is or isn't.

Author:  Ave [ Wed Apr 22, 2020 6:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

Pugsy, Thanks for your reply. I've actually ordered a pulse oximeter designed to use overnight while sleeping to test the effectiveness of the CPAP as well as the tongue device.

It will be interesting to see if the tongue device is equally effective or not?

Author:  Pugsy [ Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

Ave wrote:
Pugsy, Thanks for your reply. I've actually ordered a pulse oximeter designed to use overnight while sleeping to test the effectiveness of the CPAP as well as the tongue device.

It will be interesting to see if the tongue device is equally effective or not?



Just be aware that the absence of any remarkable desats doesn't mean that a person doesn't have OSA events.
I have a friend who had over 60 apnea events per hour during her in lab sleep study and her oxygen levels never really dropped all that much.
Lowest it went to was 94% and her baseline was 97%.

Author:  Ave [ Wed Apr 22, 2020 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

Pugsy, Thank you for sharing your friend's experience. The reason I am trying to treat sleep apnea is to prevent further heart disease (I learned that I have serious calcium plaque in coronary arteries) and the biggest concern of the doctor I've consulted, is oxygen saturation getting too low and the effect on blood vessels.

When I did the overnight sleep test (at home), my oxygen remained above 90% throughout except for one brief period. I'm hoping with CPAP or tongue device therapy, that will greatly improve and keep me fully saturated. I want to give CPAP every chance to succeed. And posted a longer discussion of my situation in another part of this forum (CPAP machines, masks, etc) with several questions at the end of that.

So, from what you are saying, even if my oxygen level remains high, I may still be having apneas. I'm assuming that continuing to have apneas is a serious threat to health, correct?

By the way, I noticed that my AHI index on the Dreamstation machine has been in the 10 to 15 range during use. Down from the 35 I had during the sleep test. I'll consider changing the pressure after review with the doctor.

Thanks again.

Author:  Pugsy [ Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

Ave wrote:
So, from what you are saying, even if my oxygen level remains high, I may still be having apneas. I'm assuming that continuing to have apneas is a serious threat to health, correct?


Correct....and there's more to sleep apnea than oxygen desats to cause problems.

Ave wrote:
I noticed that my AHI index on the Dreamstation machine has been in the 10 to 15 range during use. Down from the 35 I had during the sleep test. I'll consider changing the pressure after review with the doctor.


Your AHI is still too high. Even on therapy the AHI is still in the category of mild. You want the AHI to be below 5 and the lower the better.
I suggest that you have that review with your doctor sooner than later.

Author:  Ave [ Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

Thank you Pugsy

Author:  Ave [ Sun May 10, 2020 5:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

Pugsy and All,

I'm keeping pressures at 7min/20max. (original settings were 5min/20max auto PAP)

Have not met with doctor yet.

Last night (5/9) my AHI went down to 7.8 (best so far!), periodic breathing 4%
The night before, my AHI was at 8.1.
These numbers are still too high, but at least they are now improving, dropping below 10+ level I had been experiencing.

5/9/20
Time: 6h45m <90% Time 48s
Drops over 4% 18 Drops per hour 2.7
Avg SpO2 97% Lowest SpO2 80%
O2 overall score: 8.5
Avg HR 62

5/8/20
Time: 7h15m <90% Time 36s
Drops over 4% 8 Drops per hour 1.1 (best number so far!)
Avg SpO2 96% Lowest SpO2 87%
Overall score: 9.5 (out of 10) My best score so far!
Avg HR 63


Question: Is it possible to see continued improvements over time with current pressure settings? How does the body know to do that, if so?

What is the most conventional wisdom on how to lower the AHI index further?

Thanks.

Author:  Pugsy [ Sun May 10, 2020 7:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

Ave wrote:
Question: Is it possible to see continued improvements over time with current pressure settings? How does the body know to do that, if so?

What is the most conventional wisdom on how to lower the AHI index further?


It all depends on what that AHI is composed of if it will change or not.

If primarily central apneas....it might reduce with time and no changes as the body adjusts to cpap therapy.

If the AHI is composed of primarily obstructive in nature events (OAs and hyponeas) it is unlikely that they will reduce without a change in that minimum pressure.

Also it might reduce if you are getting a lot of false positive flagging happening from being awake with mask and machine on and as you get more used to sleeping with the mask on and spend less time awake...the false positives should reduce....if a good size chunk of your AHI is false positive.

A lot of ifs and maybes though. Really need to see the OSCAR detailed reports to offer much of anything else.

Author:  Ave [ Mon May 11, 2020 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

Thanks Pugsy. I still need to upgrade the operating system on my MacBook in order to be able to use OSCAR.

Should I consider also using ENCORE from Phillips or skip that for now?

Author:  Pugsy [ Mon May 11, 2020 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

Ave wrote:
Thanks Pugsy. I still need to upgrade the operating system on my MacBook in order to be able to use OSCAR.

Should I consider also using ENCORE from Phillips or skip that for now?


Encore is a Windows based only software. You can't use it on a Mac without putting a virtual Windows on it.
Not to mention it's a real PITA to install and use.

Author:  Ave [ Tue May 12, 2020 6:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tongue Sucker

Got it!

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