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Didediedide
Unread post  Post subject: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:22 pm

Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:46 am
Posts: 16
PAP Mask: F30 I. Or trying N30 i
PAP Machine: Airsense 10 Elite
Pressure Setting: 8.7 Cm

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G,Day from the land down under,
A new user of CPAP ( Airsense 10 elite 8.7 pressure f30i mask ) .Third week of use. (Still sorting out settings)
My question is reading the figures from the machine

Usage 8.7 hours
Leak 10
AHi 13.7
Total Ai. 12.0
Central. 9.7


My under standing
AHi. 13.7 x 8.7 hrs. = 119 events
TotalAi. 12.0 x 8.7hrs. =. 104 events
Central. 9.7 x 8.7hrs. =. 84 events

How do you calculate how many events were. Obstructive
Hypopnea
Central
ie. is the Total Ai - Centrals. =. OSA
104. - 84. =. 20

If this is correct AHi. - OSA. = Hypopneas
119. - 20. =. 99

I realise these numbers are not good , but using my last nights figures are my calculations correct .
If not how do you calculate them

Thanks for taking the time to have a look
I know that “Left Handed” bloke will tell me I’m a bloody dill ,and say you work it out this way
Regards Paul


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Respirator99
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 10:39 pm
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:06 am
Posts: 348
Location: Australia
PAP Mask: Resmed Airtouch F20
PAP Machine: Resmed AirCurve 10 CS Pacewave ASV
Pressure Setting: Min EPAP: 8.0 Max EPAP: 11.0 PS Min: 3.0 PS Max: 8.0

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G'day Paul, welcome to the forum.

We don't normally worry about the actual number of events - the index is easier to work with. But you do have to take into account any clusters of events, which can be more detrimental. But for the sake of the exercise, stepping through the maths I get this:

AHI = AI + HI (apnea + hypopnea)
AI = all apneas (central and obstructive)

So AHI = 13.7 x 8.7 hours -> 119 total events
and AI = 12.0 x 8.7 hours -> 104 apnea events
and CAI = 9.7 x 8.7 hours -> 84 central apnea events.

So obstructive apnea = total apneas - central apneas = 104 - 84 = 20
and hypopneas = total events - total apneas = 119 - 104 -> 15 hypopneas.

Adding them back up: OA + CA + H = 20 + 84 + 15 = 119 total events
AHI = total events / time = 119 / 8.7 -> 13.7

So you were right through most of your process, except where you said: "If this is correct AHi. - OSA. = Hypopneas 119. - 20. =. 99"

So, with that out of the way, why on earth are you using an Elite when your central apnea is so high? Did you have a diagnostic sleep study? If so, what did it show in relation to the central apnea?

By the way, where are you located? I'm in Perth, where we all live safely under the protection of Saint Mark McGowan! :)

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Didediedide
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:48 am

Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:46 am
Posts: 16
PAP Mask: F30 I. Or trying N30 i
PAP Machine: Airsense 10 Elite
Pressure Setting: 8.7 Cm

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GDay Respirator99,
Thanks for your quick reply, those results were actually from a few nights ago, and I realise they are not good.
I initially trialed a cpap (due to snoring) and only used it for one night and the tech said to return it as she read my report as having Cheyne-Stokes breathing and suggested I make an appointment to see a sleep doctor which I did and had a sleep study.
After the study I hired a auto set machine ( I don’t know the pressure settings then) however after trying several masks I returned it as the n30i mask was available in the states but not in Australia and I thought I would like to trial it when it arrived in Australia ,however I didn’t do any thing about it until 3 weeks ago
The sleep tech where I purchased the machine from has sent a copy of my results to the sleep doctor and are waiting his response, may be her suggestion that the pressure may need to be slightly lowered to reduce the centrals might be correct
In regards to your last question I don’t know the sleep study numbers but I went back to the sleep doctor and got a copy which I have given to the tech.
After reading up on “Dr Google” may be I need a machine like you use ie a aircurve pacewave ASV, but gee the price looks like being ridiculous.
PS I’m from Newcastle
Thanks again Paul


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Didediedide
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:29 am

Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:46 am
Posts: 16
PAP Mask: F30 I. Or trying N30 i
PAP Machine: Airsense 10 Elite
Pressure Setting: 8.7 Cm

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G,day Respitator99,
My actual readings from last night , the only difference from the results in earlier post was I used a n30i mask last night opposed to a f30i and the leak last night was 16 opposed to 10 .
The results were
Usage. 8.6
AHi. 5.1
Total Ai. 4.0
Central. 5.9

Therefore
AHi. 44 events (8.6x5.1)
TotalAi. 34
Central. 51

I thought these results were too good to be true
So using your calcs
34 - 51 = -17. OSA How you get minus 17 I don’t know
44 - 34. =. 10 Hypopneas
51. Centrals

So -17 + 10. +51 = 44
44 divided by 8.6. = 5.1

So I’m sure your calcs are correct

I hope tonight’s results are just as good except the centrals need to be a lot lower ( as the tech suggested maybe lowering the pressure may reduce the cpap induced centrals)
I think you and I can understand the figures I don’t know about any one else
Thanks for you interest Paul


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Pugsy
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:29 am
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Are you using EPR...Exhale Pressure Relief?
If so, at what setting?
If so...try reducing or even turning EPR off and see if that will reduce the number of central apneas you are having.
Sometimes for some people....that is enough.

If not using EPR at all now....need to have a different discussion but start with easy first.

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I may have to rise but I refuse to shine.


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Didediedide
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:04 pm

Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:46 am
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PAP Mask: F30 I. Or trying N30 i
PAP Machine: Airsense 10 Elite
Pressure Setting: 8.7 Cm

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Thanks for the reply Pugsy, i am on my way to see the sleep tech this arvo and will speak to her regarding your suggestion.
In the previous post i said central were 5.9 resulting in 51 events which was incorrect, it should have been 2.9 with 25 events.
My last night results were
usage 9.2
AHi 4.6
TotalAi 3.6
Central 2.4
Using Respirator99 calcs my figures for last night are
OAS 10 events
Hypop 9 events
Central 23 events
Thanks for your input and interest Paul


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Respirator99
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:07 am
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:06 am
Posts: 348
Location: Australia
PAP Mask: Resmed Airtouch F20
PAP Machine: Resmed AirCurve 10 CS Pacewave ASV
Pressure Setting: Min EPAP: 8.0 Max EPAP: 11.0 PS Min: 3.0 PS Max: 8.0

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Hi Paul - how did you go with the sleep tech?

As I said in my first post above, we don't count the events - we go by the indices, which are the various averages the machine gives you directly. It saves time and is more intuitive once you get used to it.

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Regards from Australia

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Didediedide
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:42 am

Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:46 am
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PAP Mask: F30 I. Or trying N30 i
PAP Machine: Airsense 10 Elite
Pressure Setting: 8.7 Cm

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GDay Respirator,
The sleep tech was closed on Friday , had a long week end ,I will speak with her tomorrow
Paul


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Didediedide
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:32 am

Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:46 am
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PAP Mask: F30 I. Or trying N30 i
PAP Machine: Airsense 10 Elite
Pressure Setting: 8.7 Cm

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G’Day All, these are the readings from my Airsense elite for the last 9 days

Usuage. AHi. Total Ai. Centrals
8.7. 19.0. 15.6. 12.6. Mon 7th
8.8. 17.7. 15.5. 14.2
8.6. 5.1. 4.0. 2.9
9.2. 4.6. 3.6. 2.4
9.3. 11.9. 11.4. 3.1
8.0. 5.2. 4.9. 3.8
7.9. 10.5. 7.1. 3.9
8.6. 15.9. 12.1. 11.1
9.4. 11.5. 10.6. 5.0. Fri 15th

Can anyone make any sense of these readings.
Still waiting for an appointment with the sleep doctor

Regards Paul
Typed the above out in neat columns but when it entered in the forum it came out as this mess I tried to edit into a form you could read but had no success Sorry


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Pugsy
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:57 am
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Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:01 pm
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Your results are pretty much all over the place which makes it extremely difficult to make any sort of suggestions as to what is going on much less fixing it. We simply need more detailed information than just these sets of numbers.

We need the detailed OSCAR daily reports to review.

Along with subjective sleep quality reports. If you aren't sleeping so solidly...a lot of these flagged events could be false positive flagging.

Did you ever get OSCAR up and running?
Watch the videos here for an idea what I am talking about with the false positive awake/arousal flagging. Bear in mind that while they talk about mainly central flags that are arousal related....it can happen with any event category. It isn't limited to just centrals.

http://freecpapadvice.com/sleepyhead-free-software

OSCAR is based off of SleepyHead so whatever you see about SH...is the same for OSCAR.

OSCAR https://www.sleepfiles.com/OSCAR/
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.ph ... stallation
http://www.apneaboard.com/wiki/index.ph ... rpretation

_________________
I may have to rise but I refuse to shine.


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Didediedide
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:38 am

Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:46 am
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Pugsy, thanks for you input , sorry the above figures are such a mess, I typed the numbers carefully and neatly in rows , but when I uploaded it all the numbers closed up ending in the above mess , I then tried to edit the post and get the numbers back into columns with no success . So you can see if I can’t do this I’ve got no hope of figuring out how to work Oscar, I have had a bit of a go but didn’t have a clue what I was doing
I’m afraid I’m still in the paper and pencil group , these computer things have got me buggered
Paul
PS the last couple of nights results looked better to me
Tuesday AHi 11.5. Total Ai 10.6. Central. 5.0
Wed. AHi 6.0 Total Ai 5.3. Central 3.4
Thurs. AHi 4.0. TotalAi 3.3. Central 0.7
Readings from Resmed Elite
Once again even after editing I couldn’t get the numbers to line up in columns


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Pugsy
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:45 am
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No...I am not complaining about the visual thing for the numbers.
Just the numbers in general...all over the place and not consistent.
The results are all over the place but the Thurs results are your best of the nights.
Tuesday's results...horrible.

The question in my mind is why the inconsistency.

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Respirator99
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 1:23 am
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:06 am
Posts: 348
Location: Australia
PAP Mask: Resmed Airtouch F20
PAP Machine: Resmed AirCurve 10 CS Pacewave ASV
Pressure Setting: Min EPAP: 8.0 Max EPAP: 11.0 PS Min: 3.0 PS Max: 8.0

Online
Paul, Oscar's not really that hard if you just follow the excellent instructions. (I know because I wrote most of them :D ). It really is worth persevering as Oscar displays all the data that we (and you) need to sort out what's going on. Your doctor should use a similar program put out by the machine manufacturer to get the same detailed view.

In the mean time I've taken the numbers you gave and charted them so we can get an overview of what's happening. As Pugsy said, they are all over the place, with a lot of inconsistency. I think this may be an outcome of using the Elite to treat central apnea - you can get some good nights and some absolute shockers! In general your centrals are much higher than obstructive apnea and hypopnea, except for the Friday which is a bit weird. Again, Oscar would allow us to get a closer look and a better understanding.

Attachment:
File comment: Paul's results
Chart.png
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_________________
Regards from Australia

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Didediedide
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 3:57 am

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Thanks Respirator 99,
When my daughter or grand kids get the time I’ll get them to help me with the Oscar program.
Thanks for your input
My last 5 nights results may be better ( what do you think)
Usage Tue 9.4,We’d 8.4,Thurs9.0,Fri7.4,Sat4.0
AHi Tue11.5, Wed6.0, Thurs4.0, Fri3.6, Sat1.2
Ai Tue10.6, Wed5.3, Thurs3.3, Fri2.4, Sat1.2
Central Tue5.0, Wed3.4, Thur0.7, Fri2.0, Sat0

I hope you can make sense of these readings
Thanks Paul


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Respirator99
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:39 pm
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Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:06 am
Posts: 348
Location: Australia
PAP Mask: Resmed Airtouch F20
PAP Machine: Resmed AirCurve 10 CS Pacewave ASV
Pressure Setting: Min EPAP: 8.0 Max EPAP: 11.0 PS Min: 3.0 PS Max: 8.0

Online
I've charted your latest results to the same scale as the first and there is a definite improvement. So has anything changed since last week? At this stage we don't know anything about your settings or other parameters - that's one reason we keep asking for Oscar output.

Attachment:
File comment: Paul's second week results
Chart2.png
Chart2.png [ 28.51 KiB | Viewed 1971 times ]


By the way, did you get to see your therapist? Any feedback from there?

_________________
Regards from Australia

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Didediedide
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:57 am

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Thanks again Respirator,
I don’t understand why the results are looking a bit better, I have been using a n30i mask which seems to be ok. I tried a p30i last night , the readings were
Usage 6.8 hrs
Leak. 23
AHi. 1.3
Total Ai 1.0
Central 0.4
Once again results are looking better (to me)
I have swapped back to the n30i for tonight
The company I purchased the gear from sent a copy of my results to the sleep doctor over a week ago and haven’t heard back ( they said he was sick), so I rang last Tuesday (a week tomorrow) and I haven’t heard back
Thanks for your input Paul


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Didediedide
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 2:45 am

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G'Day Respirator and Pugsy, Thanks for your interest, My Daughter and grand kids have been too busy to give me a hand ,so i took a punt and shoved a few buttons and managed to get OSCAR downloaded and the results up loaded I'm quite proud of myself
Now to see if I can publish the results
On the preview it looks like i buggered it up but may be you can make some sense of it
Paul


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Respirator99
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:06 am
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Posts: 348
Location: Australia
PAP Mask: Resmed Airtouch F20
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Pressure Setting: Min EPAP: 8.0 Max EPAP: 11.0 PS Min: 3.0 PS Max: 8.0

Online
G'day Paul

Pretty good charts - looks like you've got it under control. But we need to see the details in the left column, not the number of events. We don't care about the number of events - the details are far more important. You've also uploaded the Thursday chart three times, so maybe let us see some of the other nights as well.

Having said that, your results are definitely improving. Something you did last week has made a substantial difference. Let's see the details of those other nights and we'll give a more detailed response.

_________________
Regards from Australia

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Didediedide
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:30 pm

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Thanks Respirator, I'll have another go ,


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Didediedide
Unread post  Post subject: Re: Airsense 10 elite readings query  |  Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm

Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:46 am
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PAP Mask: F30 I. Or trying N30 i
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G'Day Respirator , do these readings show the information that helps you understand my problems.
The only differences I know are, I tried difference masks
Sat 19th n30i
Sun 20th p30i
Mon Tues n30i
Wed 23rd p30i
I tried to enter more earlier results but it seems you can only enter 5


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